Brethren Archive
The Year 1890

"Be Not Deceived:"

by P.A. Humphery




Comments:
Mark Best said ...

I am aware that these "historical documents" are valuable primary sources for research, but it seems to me, without taking up any of the many points raised, that Mr Humphery spent a great deal of time and effort by going on a fault-finding exercise, to look for and find fault with everything Mr Raven said and wrote. 

There is a danger that over-occupation with the various controversies among “brethren” might ‘overthrow the faith of some’. Indeed, W T Turpin returned whence he came. Others went elsewhere. We are in a very broken and weak state now, especially in the UK. 

Monday, Aug 19, 2024 : 22:19
Syd said ...
You raise valid concerns, Mark.
In Humphrey's “Remarks on a Paper entitled ‘The Person of the Christ,’ by F.E.R.,” I was struck by the oft-repeated phrase of F.E. Raven that the Lord is "viewed in Scripture distinct and apart from what He is as God," and how this was used by his detractors to prove that Raven divided the Person of Christ with respect to His humanity and His deity. Without studying FER’s writings, I don’t know whether this is valid or not. But Humphrey certainly went after him.

Humphrey wrote that FER said that he only said what Darby said—FER: “Our Lord is viewed in Scripture distinct and apart from what He is as God;" and Darby—"Our Lord is seen as Man apart from God.” Perhaps reference to the “Man” makes the difference, but maybe FER also did allude to the Lord’s Manhood elsewhere. It’s so easy to find fault, but some, like Raven, did perhaps give reason for some brethren to search out the “fault.”
Tuesday, Aug 20, 2024 : 03:46
Mark Best said ...

Syd

The citation from FER comes from his paper on "The Person of the Christ." Elsewhere, in it he refuses the notion that, in becoming a Man, there was any change as to His Person. To quote another: "For the Person is not changed" (J N Darby, Synopsis of the Books of the Bible, Volume 5, page 230, footnote - Stow Hill edition)

So why his opposers read into it that he was dividing the Lord's Person? We are united to Him as the Christ, but are associated with Him as the Son of God, and even then, He had to become a Man that this might be. How could we be united to Him as God, i.e. in the Godhead? A rhetorical question, of course, which provides its own answer. 

Another point in this paper by PAH, from the bottom of page 9 through to page 12, is his refusal to accept what FER states about Christians, while on earth, as being in "a mixed condition." I had always thought that we still have the flesh in us, and flesh as inhered by sin. Is this not so? Or had PAH managed to extricate himself from the flesh, and attain to a status of sinless perfection? I suggest that he was so bent on finding fault that he had not understood one word of what FER was saying. 

The point is that we cannot apply to believers, while in their body here, that their walk, their entire Christan life, is always in full accord with how they stand absolutely in Christ according to the purpose of God. It would mean that all believers are completely sound in all areas of doctrine, never could  fall into error, be incapable of sinning, live perfect and blameless lives. Hence, the flesh and sin that remains in the Christian for the time being must therefore be taken account of, though our eyes should be fixed on Christ and not on ourselves. 

Tuesday, Aug 20, 2024 : 04:27
Syd said ...
Yes, much about Romans 7 and 8.

I think we all stumble over words trying to make a point, especially as we gain in learning. I can see why Humphrey would object to Raven’s, “He gives His flesh for the life of the world,” speaking of Christ in His human condition. Pursuing the truth of this, one may ask, “who was ‘He’ and what is ‘His flesh.’”?

I do find that J.N. Darby usually did make things clearer, using the text of Scripture—“I learn that the Word, who was with God and was God, was made flesh, and dwelt among us, the Father sending the Son to be the Saviour of the world. That He, as the Christ, was born of a woman, by the power of the Holy Spirit coming on the Virgin Mary, true Man, without sin, in whom dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, the promised seed of David according to the flesh, the Son of Man, and Son of God, determined to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness by resurrection from the dead, one blessed Person, God and Man, the Man Christ Jesus, the anointed Man, Jehovah the Saviour."

But access to the many writings on this website, does help one to find what erroneous beliefs and teachings—depending who you choose to believe—did arise, by whom and when, so as to be watching and testing all by the Word of God.
Wednesday, Aug 21, 2024 : 20:18


Add Comment: